Door to Door Sellers

Just been visited by young bloke trying to sell. Very aggressive and didn't take no for an answer. Beware.

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Comments

  • Thanks for the warning.

    Hope it wasn't a misunderstanding with a meter reader ;-)
  • Best get in touch with the local branch of the Sons of Anarchy
  • He said that I was very rude and that we should keep the door locked as he 'would be back'. 
  • Brian2252 said:
    He said that I was very rude and that we should keep the door locked as he 'would be back'. 
    That's not very nice is it?  In fact downright worrying.  It can be difficult to distinguished between the shysters and the genuine.  We had a doorstep call a few weeks ago by a tough-looking guy who was actually very well-spoken, and he told me a story of deprivation and prison; I couldn't tell whether it was true or just a spiel.  Anyway he had ID with him.  I bought a torch off him and it's a good torch, works well, and he went away happy, no harsh words. 
    Obviously that was very different from a "young bloke – Very aggressive and didn't take no for an answer." No excuse for aggression.


  • Brian2252 said:
    He said that I was very rude and that we should keep the door locked as he 'would be back'. 
    Brian, that is threatening behaviour and therefore a police matter. This guy needs to be kept in check.
  • I very rarely get bothered with door to door sales as I have a discreet "No cold callers" sign by the doorbell, seems to work well, the odd few that get through are normally greeted with "can't you read?"

    I wonder if it isn't time to declare the whole of Wivenhoe a "No Cold Calling Zone"

    No Cold Calling Zones

    1. About this Policy

    1.1. No Cold Calling Zones (NCCZs) have been introduced by local authority/police partnerships in various areas across the country as a means of reducing incidents of doorstep crime. Crime statistics have shown this to be an effective approach. Every year Essex Trading Standards receives a high level of reports of doorstep crime being committed in the Essex area, often where elderly and vulnerable members of our community have been targeted by rogue traders. The introduction of these zones is one of a number of tools used by Trading Standards to stamp out this type of crime within Essex.
     
    1.2. The zones are specific geographical areas where the demographics (elderly, vulnerable people) suggest that it is not desirable for the residents to receive unsolicited or 'cold' callers. Often the zones are implemented where Trading Standards has intelligence to show an area to be a hot spot for doorstep crime or distraction burglary. NCCZ's are created in partnership with local residents, Trading Standards, the police, neighbourhood watch and other local partners. Whilst many cold callers may be legitimate traders, cold calling is often used by unscrupulous or rogue traders, and is a method sometimes used in distraction burglary. NCCZ's deter uninvited traders and bogus callers from visiting specific areas, and protect and empower local residents.
     
    1.3. Street signs are erected at all access points used by cold callers to alert them that they are in a no cold calling zone. Residents are all provided with stickers to display on their front doors to make callers aware that the area is a No Cold Calling Zone and that the resident will not deal with them.
     
    1.4. Concerns that the Zones will adversely affect legitimate traders who wish to canvass door to door have to be balanced by the harm done to vulnerable residents who have experienced doorstep crime. Whilst it is legal to trade this way there are operators in Essex who totally ignore the legislation and prey on these residents.
     
     

    2. General Principles

    2.1. The following general principles must be met before a zone can be considered;

    a) High percentage of elderly/vulnerable residents living in the zone who are subject to the possibility of exploitation and/or deception

    b) The core purpose in setting up the NCCZ must be crime prevention or reduction, or reducing the fear of crime. There must be a real prospect that the establishment of a NCCZ will assist in achieving this purpose.

    c) Locality – the physical attributes of the road must be suitable for the restrictions being introduced. Elements such as length of the road, speed limit, number of dwellings covered by the zone must be considered. The zone must be capable of being clearly separate to other local roads and/or residential areas.

    d) Level of intelligence received about doorstep crimes and distraction burglaries.
    Sources of intelligence to include;
     
    i. Citizens Advice database
    ii. Local neighbourhood watch
    iii. Local police
    iv. Regional intelligence database (IDB)
    v. Borough, City and District Councils
    vi. Residents associations
    vii. Parish councils.
     
    e) There must be consultation and agreement with all householders within the zone prior to the creation of a NCCZ
     

    3. Partnership working

    3.1. Intelligence about ‘hot spot’ areas will be shared with Borough, City and District Councils. In those areas where problems are highlighted joint working will be undertaken to ensure that contact is made with local residents to highlight the potential benefits of the implementation of a zone.
     
     

    4. On-going monitoring and Review

    4.1. Once a zone has been implemented in an area and has been operating for 6 months surveys are conducted with the residents to monitor the success of the scheme. The questions asked are designed to gauge feedback on how confident the residents now are about dealing with cold callers, the level of cold calling now within the zone and their overall feeling of safety. This information is then used to shape the systems and procedures used by Trading Standards to implement new zones and where necessary target areas for increased activity for the detection of Doorstep crime.
     
    4.2. All NCCZ’s will be reviewed once every 3 years to monitor their effectiveness and establish whether there is a continued need for the zone.
  • "I wonder if it isn't time to declare the whole of Wivenhoe a "No Cold Calling Zone"

    No.

  • There were two very noisy lads with Geordie accents going up and down our road the other day. Seemed to fit the definition of Nottingham knockers: http://www.safelocaltrades.com/consumers/advice/nottingham-knockers


  • Have to agree with zom
  • Here's an idea. 
    Why don't we assume that everyone who knocks at our front door (and may or may not try to sell us something) isn't a potential criminal?
    A No Cold Calling Zone?
    No
  • adrian said:
    "I wonder if it isn't time to declare the whole of Wivenhoe a "No Cold Calling Zone"

    No.

    Quentin said:
    Here's an idea. 
    Why don't we assume that everyone who knocks at our front door (and may or may not try to sell us something) isn't a potential criminal?
    A No Cold Calling Zone?
    No
    Do you like people trying to sell you things when it suits them rather than when it suits you? 

    If we did a poll of 100 people how many would say "yes i love it when people try and get me to buy things, particularly when i was doing something else"; i think you'd be looking at single figures.
  • Looking back over a fair number of years, I guess it's the hours taken by dealing with this that would be in single figures :D
  • Marika said:
    Looking back over a fair number of years, I guess it's the hours taken by dealing with this that would be in single figures :D
    Don't think this invalidates my question
  • edited July 9
    No, but it puts it in perspective...
  • I suppose it depends how many things a given person experiences in a given time frame that raise their cortisol levels. 

    I think is it easy to argue that the gross utility derived from door-to-door sales persons is negative
  • You could argue that - if you take as your bottom line the 'given person' with this particular sensitivity.
    But that's like measuring people's response to sunshine by asking about the experience of those with photo-sensitive skins.
  • I find that sharing the house with a large German Shepherd who doesn't reall appreciate strangers and insists on inspecting them at the door is surprisingly discouraging to some people ...
  • Marika said:
    You could argue that - if you take as your bottom line the 'given person' with this particular sensitivity.
    But that's like measuring people's response to sunshine by asking about the experience of those with photo-sensitive skins.
    those two things were meant to be separate: the first point in relation to perspective, the second going back to my original poll i.e. single figures out of 100 = negative gross utility
  • Ah - mind the gap ;)

    I'm with @Pete and @sce_to_aux on the utility point: there must be positive utility for the sellers- mostly, and ignoring some of the responses they might get.
    And I'd question the magnitude of the negative utility if converted in minutes over life.
  • edited July 9
    NickT said:
    I find that sharing the house with a large German Shepherd who doesn't reall appreciate strangers and insists on inspecting them at the door is surprisingly discouraging to some people ...

    I am reminded of a sign that once adorned a farmhouse in Weeley;

    "If you ain't been invited, you can bugger off!"

    Suspect the farmer may not have been in the market for mouldy mattresses, dodgy roofing or replacement UPVC double glazing on his grade II listed farmhouse!  :D

    Anyone know where you can get the "official" version?  Obviously ECC..
    PGO AWAY The new cold calling stickerP
  • Marika said:
    And I'd question the magnitude of the negative utility if converted in minutes over life.
    If the negative utility of a door knocking instance persisted only as long as the interaction lasted then you can argue that there would be a positive gross utility:

    90 out of 100 people unhappy for 5 minutes
    +
    1 (the seller) happy for 90 x 5 minutes

    = 0 net utility

    10 out of 100 happy for 5 minutes
    +
    1 happy for 10 x 5 minutes
    = 100 minutes net utility

    But, the reality is that cortisol dissipation is not instant and therefore the net utility for the 90 out of 100 scenario will be negative because some or all of those 90 will be unhappy for longer than 5 minutes.

    If we take a conservative figure of approximately 2 minutes for cortisol to dissipate (Epinephrine and Norepinephrine Responses in Continuously Collected Human Plasma to a Series of Stressors. Psychosomatic Medicine 
    Vol. 45, No. 6 (December 1983)), then the negative utility for the 90 scenario will be 

    90 x -7 = -630
    the positive gained from the seller is still 500
    so we have a negative 130

    add back in the 10 out of 100 and you then are left with a gross utility of -30

    This of course assumes that those in the 90 group return to their base cortisol level after just 2 minutes, the longer that takes so the gross utility level becomes increasingly negative.

    I am also making an assumption that the seller is happy doing what they are doing, given they are likely to receive up to 90 negative reactions, it stands to reason they won't actually contribute 500 minutes of positive utility, further reducing the gross utility.

  • In the ten years that I have been living in Wivenhoe, the benefit to me of the multitude of cold callers that I have answered the door to has been absolutely zilch.
  • I just made a quick list of all the other repeated occurrences in my life with potential or actual cortisol raising effects and concluded that the contribution of once-a-year door knockers is so small as to be insignificant.

    Now, there's a deadline somewhere... ;)
  • "once-a-year door knockers".  Also known as carol singers.  ;)
  • You must be lucky, Marika, to only have people 'cold-calling' once a year.  Where we are it's a regular, weekly occurrence...
  • puffin said:
    You must be lucky, Marika, to only have people 'cold-calling' once a year.  Where we are it's a regular, weekly occurrence...
    Yes, but I also distinguish between just cold calling and the kind of door knocking that started this thread ;)
  • adrian said:
    "I wonder if it isn't time to declare the whole of Wivenhoe a "No Cold Calling Zone"

    No.

    Quentin said:
    Here's an idea. 
    Why don't we assume that everyone who knocks at our front door (and may or may not try to sell us something) isn't a potential criminal?
    A No Cold Calling Zone?
    No
    Do you like people trying to sell you things when it suits them rather than when it suits you? 

    If we did a poll of 100 people how many would say "yes i love it when people try and get me to buy things, particularly when i was doing something else"; i think you'd be looking at single figures.

    Not especially, but some people need to make a living that way & I expect it's a hard enough living to make already.
    I would rather have the nuisance factor of the occasional cold caller rather than live in some Ballardian fenced-in distopia where nobody knocks on doors any more for fear of the welcome they might receive.

  • Marika, to make that kind of distinction means you have to have answered the door to ALL your cold callers, and then analysed the results, doesn't it...?  ;)
  • puffin said:
    Marika, to make that kind of distinction means you have to have answered the door to ALL your cold callers, and then analysed the results, doesn't it...?  ;)
    That's right :)
    And when I said that I distinguish between general cold calling and door knocking, it was the latter category I had in mind as the once a year visitors. It was you who heaped them together...
    puffin said:
    You must be lucky, Marika, to only have people 'cold-calling' once a year.  Where we are it's a regular, weekly occurrence...
    So I don't feel that the door knockers of this thread as a separate group give me much unmanageable grief.
  • Even by WF standards, thus must be one of the most bizarre threads I've ever encountered. 
    I agree with adrian and puffin. 
    Some people don't have money. 
    So they sell door to door. 
    Some are suspect. Some are not. 
    Are we saying we should stop people trying to make a living because we're scared?
    And, yes, I've bought stuff I didn't really need from door to door sellers. Not because I've been intimidated (they were polite to the point of being distressingly servile) but because they clearly needed the money. 
    I've always loved Wivenhoe because it's an open community. Let's not let the scaremongers change that. 
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