New trains - feedback wanted

Abellio have released images of the new trains they plan to introduce.  The ones earmarked for our Clacton line don't look that different inside to the current 'purple' ones in use.  Perhaps one of the rail experts can enlighten me - why would they persist with trains without tables on our line? I find it frustrating not being able to work effectively on the trains with laptop on knees etc.  I'm sure there's a reason I'm not aware of!

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/news-desk/news-articles/greater-anglia-seeks-customer-feedback-its-new-train-designs

Phil


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Comments

  • I think this is actually the better link to view the designs, apologies.
    https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/form/transforming-your-railway-with-new-trains

  • Really disappointed that for a lengthy journey from Clacton they are persisting with standard 3+2 and first 2+2 seating.

    Other operators on other routes do at least give more comfort.

    it was better 30 years ago

  • There wont be any first class on the new trains to Wivenhoe, only the InterCity trains to Norwich will have first class all the others will be standard only, so 3+2 seating for all. 
  • So much for all GA's fine words about 'significant improvements'...
  • Not to mention their closure of various ticket offices/waiting rooms along the 'Sunshine Coast' line!   :(
  • Alfie1014 said:
    There wont be any first class on the new trains to Wivenhoe, only the InterCity trains to Norwich will have first class all the others will be standard only, so 3+2 seating for all. 

    In that case I bloody well want a refund for my season ticket!!
  • Removal of first class is a significant improvement, especially if it means more space for everyone else.

  • The London to Clacton route, despite the distance, is always allocated short commuter hop rolling stock. Perhaps somebody on the forum can give some insight, are there operational reasons or is it just commercial considerations?

    I was hoping the improvements would lead to a more comfortable journey to London. I've commented on the site that the proposed carriages look more suited to short haul suburban use. So I look forward to enjoying Oyster card pricing, so we can buy cheap batches of daily travel to commute without having to buy them in increments of 7 day tickets which include Saturday and Sunday. 




       

     
  • adrian said:
    Removal of first class is a significant improvement, especially if it means more space for everyone else.


    I pay over £8k a year to be guaranteed a seat and to have a peaceful haven in which to spend my 2.5 hour daily commute. The First Class compartments on the Purple trains are only eight seats and I damned well defend my right and choice to pay to travel with a little more room and a whole lot less hassle than in Standard
  • Andrew said:
    Really disappointed that for a lengthy journey from Clacton they are persisting with standard 3+2 and first 2+2 seating.

    Assuming their pictures are accurate, there is a significant change. Their pictures show only a 3+3 layout, whereas at the moment in standard there is mostly 3+2 but with the occasional 2+2.

    If this is accurate, it is very bad news for those of us with long legs. I'm over six foot, with long legs and a relatively short trunk.

    If I sit in one of the seats that is directly opposite another seat (and the person in the other seat has vaguely average length legs), then I end sitting with my lower legs bent back under me. Within 20 minutes like that I can't feel my feet and I'm in distinct discomfort.

    With the current setup of 3+2 by the entrances and exits (and 3+3 elsewhere), there are at least some seats on ever carriage where I can sit without someone sat directly opposite me.

    I'm hoping that the images they show are misleading and there will still be some seats with leg room for taller people.
  • I have to say that I am also disappointed that tables are not to be made available in the new carriages. Cleary this is a commuting route into the City for many, and it wouldn't take much to realise that tables would constitute a huge improvement in the quality of the service for those who have to work (not that I commute myself).

    Losing First Class is, I suspect, neither here nor there for most people. The amount of space it will free up is probably minimal, but on the other hand it aways seems a bit of an anachronism. 

    Didn't they say, however, that the service would be speeding up - which is no bad thing? Plus the Wi-Fi will be useful.
  • Savvy said:
    adrian said:
    Removal of first class is a significant improvement, especially if it means more space for everyone else.


    I pay over £8k a year to be guaranteed a seat and to have a peaceful haven in which to spend my 2.5 hour daily commute. The First Class compartments on the Purple trains are only eight seats and I damned well defend my right and choice to pay to travel with a little more room and a whole lot less hassle than in Standard
    And everyone else pays thousands to sit on the floor. Very noble of you.
  • ... And that's why after 30 years of paying to stand in standard (perhaps that's what they mean when they call it that) but never sit on the floor, because I care about my clothes, I realised that the train companies aren't going to be struck with a sudden charitable urge to provide a comfortable, reasonable civilised service (they just claim that they will get you there, eventually).
    It's a choice that I make and one that means sacrifices in other areas, but if it means that I feel more relaxed and in a better frame of mind once I get to my office in the City and don't feel the urge to kick the cat when I finally get home, it's worth every extra penny to me.

    Mind you, I have not seen Wivenhoe commuters needing to stand or sit on the floor (really?!) during peak times thus far ... It seems that we are far enough out for there to be seats in the morning at the very least. Perhaps you travel at a different time however Mike?

  • Not studies the specs properly so far but it all looks just a replication of current situation. [Probably better stuff in the railway press.........].

    Including the same guaranteed-to-fail nasty smelly toilets, a public health hazard from people being forced to pee elsewhere inside the train (and only one per 5 car train??).
        Must demand a couple of proper old style non-computerised toilets as well!

    Can't see any pics of 3 + 3 seating?
     Hardly possible.

    Given that so many people choose to stand anyway rather than squeeze into the middle of a 3 (is it because they are nervous characters frightened of pushing in, or because they belong to the 'everyone except me is a nasty smelly alien thing' school of thought?), I wonder myself if it might not make more people happy to have half of each car with wider 2+2 seats? Certainly it would offpeak.

    Our trains are at least to be solid things, not the Flirts which crumple up in any collision!
  • Savvy said:


    Mind you, I have not seen Wivenhoe commuters needing to stand or sit on the floor (really?!) during peak times thus far ... It seems that we are far enough out for there to be seats in the morning at the very least. Perhaps you travel at a different time however Mike?

    Going into London, no, but returning from London is another matter with standing until Chelmsford or Witham not infrequent according to my better half.
    The most offensive thing about first class is the fact that there will be empty seats in there when people are standing or sitting on the floor in standard. Patently absurd.

  • I mis-typed when I said 3+3, I meant 3+2.

    The mockups don't appear to show any sets of 3 seats opposite a set of 2, as we have in some places in the carriages at the moment. I'm really hoping that it is just that their images don't show that, not that they won't be there.
  • edited April 5
    adrian said:

    The most offensive thing about first class is the fact that there will be empty seats in there when people are standing or sitting on the floor in standard. Patently absurd.

    I could agree with you Adrian but then we would both be wrong :D

    Where are all of these people that you and Mike claim are sitting on the floor though? Are you talking about when the trains are royally f****d up and they've cancelled a whole bunch, make extra stops and the world and his significant other try to squeeze on? In that situation they tend to declassify First Class, or as is more often the case, folks decide that they will declassify it themselves and take up any extra seats. In that situation I certainly don't blame them, although some of the old boy stuffed shirts will tut loudly and prod abruptly at their iPads, as it's always uncertain how long the trouble will go on for, and as I said, I've spent over 30 years playing sardines on the trains and know exactly what it's like.

    I feel that the most offensive thing about First Class, apart from the price, is the fact that it shows how things could be done for longer journeys i.e. over an hour. For trips up to about 40 minutes it doesn't seem quite so bad if you have to stand, but over an hour is really too much for most people - it leaves you exhausted before you start the day, or on top of a working day that has already perhaps been trying enough. The shorter commute trains, such as the TFL ones that go from Shenfield, are even more uncomfortable that ours, but then the journey is only 25 minutes.
    I would rather not travel on the trains at all of course!

  • Never had issues getting a seat at Wivenhoe, Stratford or Liverpool Street in rush hour. Mind you I hate the 3+2 seating. 

    The intercity however can be difficult to get a seat at times. 

    WiFi will be useful however and usb charging as well. 
  • Mottza said:
    Never had issues getting a seat at Wivenhoe, Stratford or Liverpool Street in rush hour. Mind you I hate the 3+2 seating. 

    The intercity however can be difficult to get a seat at times. 

    WiFi will be useful however and usb
    charging as well. 
    Totally agree. Anyone claiming the trains are too busy to wivenhoe must be referring only to the intercity or when things go wrong and trains have been delayed/cancelled. There is no justification for having 3+2 on the line at all. 
  • The Aventra trains look decidedly uncomfortable for journeys of 1-hour-plus. How hard ARE those seats? The coffin-like seat back design is unattractive and the general decor couldn't be duller. The removal of First Class is a bit of a blow. Not looking forward to losing the chance to not have to listen to noisy school kids, people bleating into their phone or playing music on it loudly. 

    The carriages look deeply uninspiring given the costs of train travel. If it was half the price, then Ryanair-style budget redesigns might be tolerable. If it makes them more reliable and/or quicker, then that's nice - but they look cheap, nasty and regressive.

    The new rolling stock appearing in northern Italy which I frequently use has similar seating - but much more space, at-seat power points, smartphone ticketing for nearly all journeys and yet cost about half the price to travel on.
  • The new trains will have at seat power points. Also smart tickets is being rolled out this year. 

    One thing we can agree on is the high cost of travel. But that's a government subsidy issue. 
  • edited April 6

    I would hope that every single one of you has completed the feedback form. Otherwise, you might as well moan at your garden fence about the price of tickets.

    A couple of points to pick up.

    Peter:
    2 toilets per 5 carriages (i.e. 4 per 10 car unit). Stadler Flirts are also very sturdy. I'm not convinced there's a genuine need to be scaring people about them.

    Phil:

    Completely agree, the lack of tables is the most disappointing thing here.

    Colin:

    Those seats are pretty hard by the looks of things, worth complaining about now I reckon. I've already submitted my comments. 

    First Class:

    I think the time has come for a rethink on whether 1st Class is needed on commuter trains. I broadly agree with the removal of 1st class to provide additional space, but as was said above, half a carriage of slightly larger seats for longer legs or for those like me who have medical problems and have to avoid contact with others would have been a sensible compromise. Again, I've taken that up with GA.

    3+2:

    Disappointing for us longer distance travellers but kind of expected. The whole premise of the new franchise was "more seats into London" so the function of the Aventras is clearly as unit shifters. For those wanting a more comfortable journey, the Stadler Flirt Intercity trains will have 2+2 so you could change at Colchester.

    Overall:

    The Aventras will provide improvements. Once they've settled down they will be more reliable than the existing 29 year old stock. They will speed-up the journey from Wivenhoe to London by a few minutes on average and will be cooler in the summer, which will at least improve one element of the commute. It's also worth pointing out that both they and the Intercity Stadlers will provide a significant increase in capacity so many. many more will be able to sit down in all circumstances.




  • I echo Mike's comments, please get your feedback submitted.  Given how often this type of complete replacement happens, the few minutes spent could make a big difference.
  • And less seats even with first class removed.
  • I've looked at the numbers KST, these new trains hold more people seated, let alone standing. They will make a positive difference.

    The main concern is if all off-peaks run as 5 new cars instead of 8 old ones because that will be a cut of around 150 seats per train. That is something you should all be commenting on. 


  • kstkst
    edited April 6
    I thought that the trains on this line will be made up of 3 and 2 car carriages. So 2 or 3 car ones can run off peak on their own 
    Seems Marks Tey to Sudbury,can have tables for their long journey !! (2 car less passenger space needed)
  • As far as I know we'll have 5 cars on the Walton - Colchester service and 5 or 10 on the Clacton to London services. 10 of the new longer cars will be roughly the same length as a current 12 car consist. 

    The Sudbury service is being extended to Colchester Town and will be 3 car units but, yes, it's a remarkable level of comfort for such a small branch line. 
  • Mike said:

    I would hope that every single one of you has completed the feedback form. Otherwise, you might as well moan at your garden fence about the price of tickets.

    A couple of points to pick up.

    3+2:

    Disappointing for us longer distance travellers but kind of expected. The whole premise of the new franchise was "more seats into London" so the function of the Aventras is clearly as unit shifters. For those wanting a more comfortable journey, the Stadler Flirt Intercity trains will have 2+2 so you could change at Colchester.

    I've submitted the same comments that I made here. Not that it is going to make any difference, I'm quite sure they are suddenly going to change their layout if a few tall people complain at this point in the process.

    On the times that I've had to at Colchester in the morning getting a seat on the Intercity trains has been problematic.
  • Mike said:
    I've looked at the numbers KST, these new trains hold more people seated, let alone standing. They will make a positive difference.

    The main concern is if all off-peaks run as 5 new cars instead of 8 old ones because that will be a cut of around 150 seats per train. That is something you should all be commenting on. 


    Have you seen some carriage layouts then Mike, if so where ?
  • Mike said:
    I've looked at the numbers KST, these new trains hold more people seated, let alone standing. They will make a positive difference.

    The main concern is if all off-peaks run as 5 new cars instead of 8 old ones because that will be a cut of around 150 seats per train. That is something you should all be commenting on. 


    Have you seen some carriage layouts then Mike, if so where ?
    Yes, a friend who works for GA showed me them though they may have changed since then. I memorised the capacities. 

    10 car Aventras hold 906 seated passengers.
    5 car Aventras hold 430 seated passengers. (860 for two coupled together). 
    By comparison the current 4 car trains hold 290 and 280 (the latter being the newer Desiros) though about 20 are 1st class. 


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